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Subject	Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	LaBTop (Daddy)
Posted on	02-22-01 14:39
Post No	174783
Inroduction to 20th Century Alchemy by Joe E. Champion INTRODUCTION From centuries before the reign of Cleopatra, the luster of gold has mesmerized mankind. Kings and rulers alike summoned their magicians and commissioned physicians to partake in the studies of alchemy. For even in Fourth Century China, alchemy was elevated to a medical science because the magical concoction of "Drinkable Gold" was considered the elixir of eternal life. During the early Renaissance, most European monarchs had at least one or two alleged gold makers on their payrolls with exclusive licenses for production of noble metals. With the issuance of a commission, the rulers made laws declaring it illegal for others to practice this mystical art. Even Isaac Newton dabbled in alchemy, as recorded in his journals, and conducted several laboratory experiments to test its applicability. As modern day science evolved, starting in the middle of the 19th Century, it was assumed as an absolute fact that one could not bring about the change of one element to another without energies stupendously greater than that of any chemical reaction. Thus, the laws of scientific absolutes are once again being challenged. This book is not about gold, but the transmutation of elements. It is for the hobbyist, the high school chemistry buff, the seekers of knowledge, and whoever wishes to gain an understanding of how the universal formation of elements occurred. You will find simple procedures, where, with basic equipment, one can bring about by nuclear change the transmutation of one element to another. As I will go into much greater detail later, the cause of change from one element to another only occurs through a nuclear reaction. The discovery I made did nothing to change the universal laws of science. I only defined a new set of condi-tions under which a nuclear reaction can occur. TWO POTENTIAL AREAS OF DANGER EXIST WHEN EXPERIMENTING WITH THIS SCIENCE. THEY ARE RADIATION AND THE TOXICITY OF VAPORS. BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANY EXPERIMENTS WITHIN THIS AREA, CONSULT AN EXPERT IN THE SUBJECT OF LABORATORY SAFETY. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "THE NEW GOLDEN RULE" "Ye who makes thy own gold, makes thy own rules." J. Champion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this book, you will learn different procedures on how one synthetically produces gold from a portion of mercury. The reason I chose gold as the primary metal is, for years, gold has become the status symbol of wealth. It's malleable and ductile conditioning makes for beautiful jewelry and artifacts. Gold is produced today from mining. South Africa is producing two-thirds of the world's supply. South Dakota and Nevada are the only two states in the U.S. which are producing commercial quantities. Other countries involved in gold production include Canada, Russia, Brazil and countries within Southeast Asia. People today have little comprehension of the massive work that is required to make an ounce of gold. For example, an average mining company must process upwards of twenty tons of mineralized ore to produce one troy ounce (31.103 grams) of gold. When the efficiency of the process covered in this text is maximized, it will require the conversion of less than a pound of mercury to produce an ounce of gold and platinum! Tests of the "Champion Process" within the last year have shown the equivalence of up to 32 troy ounces of gold production from one ton of synthesized minerals. This does not take into consideration the platinum and other metals produced in the same operation! Oof course, gold is financially vulnerable due to its relationship to the various international currencies. This was evident in a conversation with Mr. Brian Russell, Consulate For Energy and Mining, South African Embassy, Washington, D.C.. When I asked him for the cost to mine an ounce of gold in South Africa, he immediately asked the question, "What is the value of gold today?" The answer is a numbers game, for if the value of gold is high, they can afford to mine a much lower grade of ore at higher costs, and the reverse when the price is at a lower value. However, there did appear to be an unwritten rule communicated that day. There would be a major problem for South Africa if the value of gold was to fall beneath, say, $300.00 U.S. per ounce. This is easily rationalized due to the centuries of mining within the country which has depleted their high grade reserves. The point is, with new transmutation technologies, we can create the expensive metals from abundant, inexpensive premined base metals. Platinum, another precious metal economically valued higher than gold, was discovered in the Ural Mountains of Columbia, South America in 1735. Later, large deposits were found in South Africa. This country now supplies sixty percent of the world's production. Thirty percent is produced in Russia, with the remaining ten percent of the platinum reserves being mined as trace metals in the vast nickel deposits of Ontario, Canada. In association with platinum, the precious metal industry recognized a series of elements known as the PLATINUM GROUP METALS, or better known as "PGMs." The Platinum Group Metals, in addition to Platinum (Pt) , consist of iridium (Ir) , osmium (0s) , palladium (Pd) , rhodium (Rh) and ruthenium (Ru) . A portion of these metals are now present in your everyday life. For example, palladium, platinum and rhodium can be found in automobile catalytic converters. Their function is to transform, or reduce the harmful engine fumes to non-toxins. These metals are also found in other similar industrial applications where the reduction of harmful hydrogenous compounds are required. Iridium appears in many fountain pen tips. Palladium is used in numerous hydrogeneration, dehydrogeneration and jewelry applications. Rhodium, the rarest of the PGM's is in high demand for its use in catalytic converters. In the "Champion Process," Rhodium and palladium are created through a nuclear conversion of silver. The largest natural reserve of silver is located in Mexico which supplies approximately 80% of the world's demand for native silver. Silver, similar to lead, has been labeled a toxic substance by environmental laws. As a result, its use has been curtailed, whereas recycling efforts have been maximized. one of silver's largest industrial requirements is the production of diagnostic x-ray film. Silver consists of two natural isotopes, one of which (107) is partially consumed during the xray process. Because of this selective isotopic consumption, recycled silver is not recommended for the synthetic production of rhodium. The sporadic rambling to this point was necessary to demonstrate the general requirements of the varying reactions and to illustrate the potential restructuring of wealth between nations. For example, Mexico, as a nation, hosts the largest in-ground reserves of mercury for the Western Hemisphere. Thus, the future of Mexico's importance to the world increases as a supplier of synthetically produced gold and PGM's. The key to the future value of precious metals is not from the advancement of mining techniques, but from the advancement of transmutive techniques made possible by the Champion Process. If you took a poll now, the skeptics should far outnumber the believers. However, new discoveries are coming forth daily. In March 1993, Life Magazine reported on Lea Potts, a 15-year old high school student who created diamonds with a welding torch in the family's garage. This is a known event within the scientific community. Scientists are now working on ways to create diamonds easier, cheaper and more efficiently. The world of alchemy opens many new exciting challenges to mankind, as well as setting forth potential disasters. Both topics will be reviewed in Chapter VII. http://www.carrboroweb.com/champintro.shtml http://www.carrboroweb.com/shipwreck.shtml http://www.carrboroweb.com/champ.shtml You see, EVERYTHING is POSSIBLE, you only have to BELIEVE ! LT/ WISDOMwillWIN



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-23-01 00:48
Post No	174841
wow. now even the moderators are going weird on us. gold is a nice metal...if plentiful enough, it would make an excellent roofing material. The notion of transmutation has been with us for a long time. some biologists have claimed that certain plants (dandelion, for one) will exhibit traces of elements that weren't in the soil they were grown in...grown in a sealed enviornment. yeah, Newton messed in alchemy. Now, nano-tek might bring it home. Fullerenes should eventually make platinum look sorta useless.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	makin (Innocent till Proven Guilty)
Posted on	02-23-01 07:24
Post No	174919
Labtop I like the way you think. You seeem to have that quality about you that most on this pathetic little sphere lost a long time ago. We live in a society that condemns a free thinker. For all intents and purposes it is illegal to think for yourself. When we come into this world we have no inhibitions and no constraints. A child lives in a world where all things are possible. What does society do with this child, they spend the next 10-15 years building a prison around the mind. I believe the only restraints on our abilities are the ones we allow to be applied. I think a great experiment would be to shelter a child from such restraints. And in fact make them to believe they are more powerfull then one would think. Let's say you were able to shelter a child from societies restraints. And you made it appear that you were able to move objects with the power of thought. You set up some kind of remote control magnetic whatever that for all intents and purposes made it appear you were able to transfer energy from your mind to an object. Now you tell the child that it is something they will have to work on and the ability comes with practice and dedication. That child will practice moving objects with his mind. Not only that the child will have no doubt that with practice they too will be able to do such things. Everything is possible until you are told otherwise. It's like this bullshit that we endure in this country. Why do we endure it. Because ther is nothing you can do about it right. People complain about government, taxes, unfair laws etc. So you say to them if you don't like it do something about it. What do they say, 99% of the time the next thing you will hear is. BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. I gave up along time ago arguing that point with people. I mean that is the most untrue statement you could make. A more concise statment would be if you don't do something about it nobody will. You know we didn't just make that up, someone has told us there is nothing we can do about it. You see as long as the Government has the people convinced that there is nothing they can do about it. There will be nothing we can do about it. I think that applies to everything you can make gold from anything until you are told otherwise. You can turn dog shit into gold until you are told otherwise. Oh its getting late gotta go. SEE YA FREEDOM IN AMERICA IS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE YOUR OPPRESSOR



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	blue (Stranger)
Posted on	02-23-01 08:05
Post No	174926
Nice bit of inspirational reading Labtop. My smile for today.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-24-01 00:21
Post No	175030
if we could make gold from dogshit, someone would have to bee way into making dogshit from gold. in the long run, dogshit is more valuable. At least it can enter into the grand scheme of photosynthesis, wheras gold will eventually bee something to stub one's toe on. We were able to make plutonium. Hasn't that been swell. anybee remember the story of king Midas?



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-24-01 13:33
Post No	175175
Yea that permutation stuff sounds really cool, it could make palladium cheap We were able to make plutonium. Hasn't that been swell. Yes it has been swell, and we need to make MUCH more!!!! Breeder reactors and nuclear energy are desparately needed to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Too bad dumb fucking idiots who know nothing about Nuclear power decided it was a bad idea, now the west coast is in an energy crisis and when oil prices start to rise we will all BEE FUCKED. I am so sick of ignorant people. Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-24-01 20:33
Post No	175223
I agree. Nuclear power is the future. It's so clean! And no global warming to worry about.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Dick_Fitzbetter (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-25-01 09:53
Post No	175327
Lessee, there was that little accident at Chernobyl... (but it's sooo clean!) Then there are the billion$ in co$t$ involved in dismantling and decommisioning the old, spent reactors and equipment... (but it's sooo clean!) Then there's those nasty wastes that have to be stored in impermeable environments for 50,000 fucking years before they reach non-threatening radiation levels... Even though civilized man has only been around for about 10,000 years... But sure, we can guarantee proper storage for those wastes for about 5x the length of our existence on the planet... No problem! (but it's sooo clean!) Unfortunately, nuclear power will be a necessary, evil piece in mankind's energy puzzle, but anybody who thinks it's the goddam answer to all our problems is mistaken. ô¿ô



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-25-01 10:45
Post No	175334
That's all propaganda Dick. Don't believe a single word of it.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	CHEMHACKER (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-25-01 16:30
Post No	175357
WHAT AN INSPIRATION SEEMED TO GET SOME ON THE SOAP BOX. pOLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT .POLICE ARE CORRUPT.. THE U.S. MAKES AVAILABLE AND TAXES EVERY BOTTLE OF ETHANOL ... IT GETS BETTER... THE CIA FUNDS ITS COVERT FORIEGN OPERATIONS WITH DRUG MONEY AND THE CIRCLE KEEPS ON KEEPIN ON Balance and Moderation KEYS to the complexities of LIFE



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-25-01 17:51
Post No	175365
Thanx Dick. I was startin' to feel outnumbered on the nuclear power issue. Too bad it gets pitted against fossil fuels, instead of creating the third choice. which is, elimination of waste, thru incresingly efficient technology, and more elegant approaches. Nuke proponents tend to ignore the ramifications and costs of the minning and enrichment. Its a clunky fucking technology. The waste issue remains unsolved. and we can do better. The track record in the U.S. clearly says nuclear power is not cost effective. Possibly because of opposition...but that is the free market. Why is their opposition? Because its got some problems. Not because we're so ignorant. I'm more a fan of steady state, energy based economy. 3/4 or more of our energy is lost to outdated technologies . a new industrial revolution is taking place. Honing in on the waste. Its like finding the biggest oil field in the world. Except it ain't oil. and it ain't plutonium... its intelligence. and just 'cause i lived a few miles from 3 mile island when that fiasco was happening, doesn't make me anti-nuke.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	LaBTop (Daddy)
Posted on	02-25-01 22:18
Post No	175390
Ossie, Ossie, Ossie, you seem to forget a damm important fact : Why did/do all these European neuclear reactors pop up along the borders of neighbouring countries or at the seashore? Because they were fuckin scared of them, that's why. In Germany, the fast breeder reactor in Kalkar ( 9 Billion DMark costs) was abandoned and left rotting, because of that scariness. Now a Dutch entrepeneur has build a funpark from it, AND I LIKE IT! More then the cramping thought that the goddammed thing could have gone out of hand and nearly all of Holland would have been poisoned for the next 100000 years, when the wind would have blown west. They situated it 14 km from the Dutch border, on the river Rhein, go figure. Luckily Die Gruenen have pushed their ideas through the throats of German politicians, and that's why they have now a grip on German politics. And WHY? Because not only the Dutch, but also the Germans were intensively teached about the dangers of especially fast breeders, and got the shit kneedeep in their pants from the thought of a tiny little accident with those fuckers. I don't even want to touch the French policy on neuclear waste and power, they are kneedeep in the shit allready, let stand the RUSSIANS! I've studied the main energy sellers (oilcompanies) policy in the short and long term : there you have the bosses of your so deeply hated Echelon projects, and it comes down on a few families tightened together globally by blood ties, they are the real powermunchers from the modern times. One of that kind of breeding is now again president from the USA, god beware us. Who's god? Probably walking around with a candle, way behind things. LT/ WISDOMwillWIN



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-25-01 23:50
Post No	175396
Have you studied Nuclear Power any of you???????? NOT All of the high level waste CAN be recycled into new fuel. This involves recovering plutonium which can be made into weapons. Therefore the US Gov decided that was a bad idea and they want to just dump it all, great. The waste which cannot be recycled is relatively shortlived and much less hazardous than the recycleable stuff. If we recycled this waste it would not be a problem. I REPEAT ARE YOU BASEING YOUR ARGUMENTS ON MEDIA/ENVIRONMENTALIST PROPAGANDA OR REAL SCIENCE???? I challenge you to study the real scientific possibilities and you will see how essential nuclear power is. There are risks, however with adequate planning and correct placement these can be minimized. We have places in the US that are already very contaminated and will NEVER be cleaned up. Why not cap these with concrete and build new power plants there?? I wonder what all the dumbass suburbanites and people living in the country will do when gas is about $10/gallon. LOL That will be funny and i think it is coming sooner than you think. The oil will be GONE in less than 100 years and damned expensive once it starts to run low. Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	LaBTop (Daddy)
Posted on	02-26-01 01:07
Post No	175403
quote: All of the high level waste CAN be recycled into new fuel. This involves recovering plutonium which can be made into *weapons.....* ....sigh. This gives a pretty good insight in your type of thinking. Thank you for that. Did it ever occured to you that recycling to new fuel definately is not the same as recovering the most deadliest poison in the long term on earth , plutonium?And then? Your bright idea? In this particular case the US government seemed to have a somewhat healthier vision then you. YOU however, don't mind to have some tons of plutonium laying around, because it is converted into weapons. Very safe storage indeed. BRAVO. Lately not seen much of such clinical thinking. What a relief. Will directly inform the governments of India, Pakistan, Israel, Irak, Iran, China, France, Russia, England, Brazil, to stop worrying, that part of their burden is over, foxy2 just leaded us the only safe way. Neatly piled up weapons of mass destruction, where did I hear that lately? Must have slipped my mind as a minor point of interest. To tell you the truth, everybody with a bit more then a birdbrain is concentrating on nuclear fusion, but they got all the resistance the oil companies can bring in the field, to fight against, to make any progress. Can you imagine the day that they succeed? Too early for those greedy MF in Texas, London, The Hague, Paris etc? The stockmarket value of those oilcompanies will drop to zero in 6 month. That's why you will have to bet on China or Russia, they very well know that a success in that research will be an economical earthquake in the megaton value. And bring them to the economical frontier in one big blow. The Tocomacs in Moscow and China are priority nr one there. They know that all the economical power they have, must be channeled to that goal. quote: I challenge you to study the real scientific possibilities and you will see how essential nuclear power is. Yupp, that's why they dump those nuclear powered subs in Moermansk and Spitsbergen. Sure. And try to diminish the amount of nuclear weapons in the USA and Russia. Think Fusion, Einstein. Or any other potentialy non-destructive energy source, like ethanol from sugarcane, good for those poor peasants also, or hydrogen gas from seawater on solar-powered floating islands, or deep drill techniques for energy exchange pumps, or methane hydrates on the seabed, or the enormous natural gas fields, etc etc. The socalled Energy Crisis is a pure scam, to rip off the stupids who really don't take the time to get some insight in raw economical rules. $10 per gallon? I live in a country with their own enormous oil and gas reserves, the price per liter gas is here ~ $0.12 , do you see the light allready, Einstein? It's your fuckin government, steared by oilcompanies, who rip you off, no one else. Have a nice dream. A nuclear conflict one. LT/ WISDOMwillWIN



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	chem (Stranger)
Posted on	02-26-01 06:30
Post No	175454
I just had to put my two cents in on this one...so, I like your ideas Labster...what about free energy? anyone ever heard of that?



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-26-01 07:15
Post No	175462
the fusion reactor in the sky is more than adequate. Our technology is archaic. It needs to bee brought up to date; most liekly gradually. as one who has studied both fission and fusion, i find them both to bee laughably unsophisticated and seriously flawed. If the big fusion dream hapened (don't hold your breath) and everyone could run their hot-tubs constantly, and drive around in battleships because of the energy that was too cheap to meter, well...where does the waste heat go? And what would you do with the mountains of salt left behind in the cooling waters. Thermodynamicly, these technologies suck. We can do way fucking better, and without going into the dark ages. Though perhaps not without birth control, which, in fact is another elegant technology, if collectively, we knew how to use it.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	makin (Innocent till Proven Guilty)
Posted on	02-26-01 07:39
Post No	175465
it seems to me that the smart way to go is nuclear only you want your reactors as far away from your neighborhood as possible. That to me makes solar the way to go. Let the reactor be they sun which is pretty far away by our standards. The big problem here is the fact that big business and government can't seem to figure out how to control who gets access to the source (sun). It is somewhat readily available to all. the sun it seems is a power plant that belongs to all. Big business hates god for building such an efficient and safe powerplant and then giving it to all. FREEDOM IN AMERICA IS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE YOUR OPPRESSOR



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-26-01 22:25
Post No	175546
Sheesh LT and Dick, my comment was ironic, I thought that was obvious. I already use solar energy for heating my house and the water I use, plus newest available central heating technology, the exhaust gasses are only 50°C warm or less, compared to 120°C or more which is still common in many existing installations. It definitely cuts down on your energy costs. And to foxy2: I really wonder who is brainwashed by the media here. Your so-called short term radiation hazard still has a half-life of ten thousands of years. And sure, you can recycle and separate even the high-radiation waste. But look at all the accidents that happen all the time doing that. And when you process a given amount of hot stuff you end up with several 100 times the amount of weakly radiating waste. The US still has hundreds of thousands of tons of waste leftovers from the cold war and no idea of getting rid of it except storing it in huge concrete tanks which slowly start leaking now. If that shit gets into your ground water the good luck for future generations. Same in all other nations which use nuclear power. There's not a single safe long term storage facility here in Europe, most of the waste is simply stored in the nuclear power stations, and the weakly radiating stuff somewhere underground, waiting for the desaster to happen. > I wonder what all the dumbass suburbanites and people living in the > country will do when gas is about $10/gallon. In large parts of Europe it's about half that, and people start saving energy now. Makes no sense to drive to work 50 miles in a 3-ton SUV every day, especially when theres only one person in the car. When I was in the US I never saw solar-powered homes, although sun intensity is much bigger there than in Europe. Yet you want to be the Earth's most sophisticated high-tech nation. A 3x6 feet solar panel can supply all the hot water a 2-3 person household needs, and it costs only a few hundred dollars. Even when it was freezing outside my solar system was working, heating up water up to 35°C on sunny days. Another possibility would beproperly insulating the houses, as long as energy is too cheap people will waste it to heat their houses in winter and have the air conditioning running 24/7 in summer. But then comes Bush junior and tells the rest of the world, which already had agreed to limit and reduce CO2 emissions, that the US won't play along. Most other industrialised countries have already done the impossible, they reduced their energy consumptions considerably while increasing the industrial output. The US will have to learn the hard way that limiting the global warming is in their interest too. It's already too late to stop it.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 00:45
Post No	175562
Os: Glad to hear you were being sarcastic. IMHO, when gas hits $10/gallon, there will bee a rennesance of intelligent usage. Unrealsiticly cheap power has allowed us americans to remain as stupid as a bunch of football players. If GWB has his way, we'll bee the laughing stock of the world. um, unless we already are.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 01:29
Post No	175569
Everyone can rip on me all they want, but we are all a bunch of polluteing energy wasteing hippocrites. I have yet to see any proven way to generate enough power to sustain our massive wastefulness.(not that its a good idea to bee massively wasteful) The whole enterprise/hobby being discussed on this site is in itself MASSIVELY wasteful!!! How many of you are on a crusade to help mankind through mind enhanceing drugs?? I am sure a few are. However that whole idea might bee bullshit, but it could possibly work. Takeing the stand that its "mostly" bullshit this is all a huge waste. When the fossil fuels are gone then Nuclear is about all we have left. Sure wind and solar can contribute but bee realistic. And with global warming i cannot see buring biomass to be the solution. Hey non US bee's If you saw how sick and blatant the wasting of energy is here it would make you think. "IMHO, when gas hits $10/gallon, there will bee a rennesance of intelligent usage. Unrealsiticly cheap power has allowed us americans to remain as stupid as a bunch of football players. If GWB has his way, we'll bee the laughing stock of the world. um, unless we already are." Exactly we are being very stupid and thats why i feel a need to creat some buffers. Americas weakness is its energy usage!!! If enough of the world gets pissed at us we are fucked. I know Amertica is really fucked up, I hate our government in many ways, but is is nice being on top of the economic food chain and I personally want to stay on top. There is my little bit of nationalism coming forth. To all those against recycling radioactive waste. It IS being recycled in most of the world, however just not in America where we have probably one of the best possible protections(tons of pigs) against the plutonium falling into the wrong hands. Also some waste can be rendered harmless by a process called netron bombardment(i think thats how its done) which breaks down the radioactive parts. The main byproducts from highlevel waste recycling decay to harmless levels in around 100 years. Hmmm should we dump stuff thats harmful for ever or thats only harmful for 100 years?? Don't take John Holmes to figure that one out!! Your arguments about past nuclear waste dumps and problems are insignificant. Maybe we should all stop using DCM(dichloromethane)/any solvents because they used to dump the shit all over and cause tons of pollution. We all know that makes NO sense, but with nuclear it oh my oh my look what happened before. You are all a bunch of conservative reactionary wimps. Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 01:39
Post No	175570
I thought this little tidbit ala Stonium fit right in this discussion. "Everyone can be exposed to new ideas and concepts. We encounter fresh viewpoints, opportunities, and philosophies every day. But how many actually see what they are being shown? How many actually consider what is before them before their existing mindset pushes anything "new" or "controversial" out from their mind? Precious few. Although the human mind is wonderfully curious and inventive, it is also all too easily trained to reject new information that conflicts with a prior knowledge base. At some point in time, everyone has felt a spark of enlightenment when a novel idea momentarily penetrates the imposing barricades of prejudice and groupthink. However, the spark usually dies mere moments after its birth, since it is hard work to think and most people would rather not bother. To quote Bertrand Russell: "Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." " Have a nice day Foxy Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	bizarium (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 01:47
Post No	175571
Foxy: Burning biomass obviously isn't the answer. Fermenting biomass and running ethanol thru fuel cells is a pretty sweet way around waste heat...just another form of solar energy. Internal combustion engines suck, and will continue to suck, until they suck us dry.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 02:17
Post No	175577
Hmmm I forgot about that one. You are right, they will be an important future energy source. But probably not very competitive with nuclear for bulk energy production, more likely they will be used as mobile energy sources for cars and the like. Foxy Here is a tidbit on fossil fuels. I guess there is no need to worry since i'll bee dead before they run out anyway. Time to buy me an SUV, woo Hoo. FOSSIL FUEL SUPPLY AND EXTRACTION TECHNOLOGY Currently, the United States relies on this finite source to supply 85% of its energy needs. Coal accounts for 22% of these needs, natural gas 25%, and oil 38%. Fossil fuel reserves, fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at the situation), are large enough to alleviate immediate concern, but small enough that we should begin the transition to renewable energy sources immediately. If current usage rates (based on 1995 data) were to continue, proven reserves of oil (1.1 trillion barrels) and natural gas (4,400-4,900 trillion cubic feet) would provide the entire earth with approximately, a fifty year supply. (Rogner, 7) Known coal reserves (1.1-1.8 trillion short tons) are much more plentiful and could provide a three hundred year supply (Stegemeier). It is almost certain, though, that reserves will increase significantly as exploration increases and new extraction techniques are developed. It is estimated, therefore, that a supply of 80 years of oil (2 trillion estimated barrels), 60 years of natural gas (8,000-9,000 trillion cubic feet), and over a thousand years of coal (6-7 trillion short tons) could additionally be extracted (Stegemeier). Enhanced extraction techniques have been developed primarily for the oil industry and include the use of explosives as well as high-pressure water, gasses, and chemicals. Explosives fracture and increase the permeability of oil-rich rock beds, and high-pressure water and carbon dioxide gas can be used to force oil out of tight traps. Hot water, steam, and detergents, moreover, reduce the viscosity of very thick oil beds. These techniques can be used to extract an extra two fifths of oil from previously tapped reservoirs or can be applied to new sites which otherwise would be too difficult to tap. Should society decide to extend its dependence on fossil fuels even longer, alternative petroleum sources such as methane hydrates, geo-pressurized natural gas, tar sands and oil shale offers further promise. Enhanced extraction techniques as well as alternative fossil fuel sources, however, may prove so costly that demand diminishes long before supply is exhausted. From http://pages2.pomona.edu/~jpliskin/thesis.htm Its an interesting reading about fuel cells Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-27-01 04:02
Post No	175588
There will always be enough oil and other resources on this planet for the next several hundred years, because it will be worthwhile to use resources which aren't worthwhile to exploit now. It's simply a question of price, and what will happen to all of us until then. Think climate changes (desertification), weather changes (storms getting more and more violent), rising sea levels (half of the pacific islands will be gone), arctic ice melting etc. And don't forget about the social implications (war, refugees etc) either. Burning non-fossil fuels is a good thing. Because when you use wood, straw, plant products etc. for energy production the CO2 ballance remains neutral. You are freeing CO2 which was in the athmosphere not too long ago anyway. Not so with coal and gas: this frees up CO2 which was taken out of the equation millions of years ago. That's the bad thing about gas, oil and coal. Besides, oil is the number one precursor to all modern chemicals, from plastics to pharmaceutical products. Burning 90% of it, like we do now, is a huge waste, because while we might be able to find other sources to satisfy our demand for energy we certainly won't find anything to replace oil. Listening to people like foxy sometimes makes me doubt that democracy is the superior political system. 100 years and all that radioactive stuff will be harmless as baby lotion. Yeah right, absolutely. And BTW, DCM is decomposed slowly, but it IS decomposed. Not so with all those transuranes formed in the nuclear fuel. They are formed by neutron irradiation, you can't deactivate them once they exist. They will be there until they naturally decay, which takes VERY long.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Stonium (Moderator)
Posted on	02-27-01 04:28
Post No	175590
I love you Osmium. Sorry ya'll. Couldn't help myself that time. "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." -Oscar Wilde



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Dick_Fitzbetter (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-27-01 04:45
Post No	175593
Yeah, I knew you had to be smarter than that Os, many good points you make. Biz, YES!, mandatory global population control is what is required! Everywhere I look around me I see clueless dumbfucks on welfare or unemployment (or $6/hr jobs at McDonalds) with 4,5, or 6 kids, whereas all the intelligent couples are having none, 1, or 2 kids at most. The dumbest part of our population is re-creating the most! And there are no more evolutionary pressures to weed them out! We're all doomed! ô¿ô



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	TK421 (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-27-01 05:46
Post No	175599
Population control? I thought that's what alcohol, cigarettes, and fast food were for. In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 06:49
Post No	175612
Osmium I always new you were a socialist at heart. I want the government to take care of me too, don't we all just want to stay 12years old and let the government take care of our problems. You say that i am the problem with democracy, I say fuck you. I care more than 99% of the people out there, I care about the world and I care about the freedom and independence that you seem so eager to give up. Many of you spout off these socialist ideas like they can save the world, yea if you want to live in the matrix. LabTop, I can see you are a thinker along with Osmium and bizarium. The rest here are just babbleing. I applaud you guys for the thought. Look at the rich and poor gap in the world today do you think that skyrocketing energy prices that osmium talked about. "There will always be enough oil and other resources on this planet for the next several hundred years, because it will be worthwhile to use resources which aren't worthwhile to exploit now. It's simply a question of price, and what will happen to all of us until then." Hmm what happens to the poor when energy prices skyrocket??????????????????????????????????? Seems like it should be a great deal for them, they can switch from their kerosene stove to one that burns their own shit, mmm wouldn't that be nice. I agree with bizarium that knowledege is the key, I think we have some of that knowledge already. Osmium WE COULD REVERSE GLOBAL WARMING. But we sure couldn't do it by burning biomass or fossil fuels. If we significantly changed over to nuclear power then we could harvest that biomass and sequester it in huge pits so deep that it never degrades it just gets compressed into something like coal(eventually). This could be done to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, not just recycle it. I will not deny the problems with nuclear power. However there is enough land area on the earth to allow these plants to be situated such that the risk to human life is minimal. I would say that building them in densely populated areas such as W. Europe is a bad idea but there are places that with adequate containment the risks would be marginal. Useing superconductors large amounts of energy could be transported long distances from safer locations to the people. As to the recycleing of high level wastes. Those longlived transuranes(1000's of years) that osmium talked about can be separated from the rest of the waste and used as fuel in the reactor, by seperating these out and thereby concentrating them they can once again be used as fuel, this includes the infamous plutonium. Its seems to be a MUCH better idea to recycle these SUPER TOXIC(i am not denying that) compounds and reuseing them. You all think they should just be landfilled. That really makes sense, lets throw away some very valuable potential fuel while makeing more waste and requireing more mining of uranium, great idea wish i had thought of it. Let me in on your answers to the worlds problems. 90% of the feedback i get is tearing my answers apart with noone coming up with a viable solution of their own. Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Dick_Fitzbetter (Hive Bee)
Posted on	02-27-01 08:54
Post No	175643
Sorry, but I couldn't hear you over all that babbling! Could you repeat the question? ô¿ô



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-27-01 11:26
Post No	175657
First of all I'm not socialist, even though that's one of the worst words taught to you during high school brainwashing education. Secondly I hate paying taxes just like any other person here, but if it is the only way to limit energy consumption then so be it. I haven't seen any snow in quite some time, and I want my grandchildren to see it when they walk on this planet in a few years. And third thing I want to say is that nuclear power isn't cheaper than fossil power when you take all costs into account. Until now most countries have to use lots of tax money to keep the nuclear industry running, it does not pay itself. > Hmm what happens to the poor when energy prices skyrocket? Nobody ever said that energy prices have to skyrocket worldwide. I'm talking about ways to limit energy consumption in those countries that use up the most resources. As long as one American uses as much energy as 270 inhabitants of Bangladesh, and twice the amount of the average European, there will never be any light at the end of the tunnel. When you go shopping every bottle of coke and every pack of cigs is packet in its own plastic bag at the grocery store. I really wonder how many plastic bags are used up in the US daily. Half a billion? More than one billion? Sure, it's just a baggy, but why do you guys just bring your own? Why aren't they any stronger so you can use them repeatedly? Environmentalism starts with such small things which seem unimportant. > WE COULD REVERSE GLOBAL WARMING. Yes, I've heard that reducing the worldwide CO2 emissions by 60-80% (!!) would stop global warming. Impossible. > But we sure couldn't do it by burning biomass or fossil fuels. Still better than nuclear power with its inherant dangers. But I agree: we have to use other energy sources. Wind. Water (tidal power and rivers). The sun. Geothermal power. And most important of all: stop wasting of energy. That alone would be an instant 30-40% success rate. Let's build solar power stations in southern areas. Let them produce hydrogen and electricity. The sun alone is supplying with more energy than we will ever need. That's the next source we will have to use. Clean, efficient, no long term dangers like nuclear power. Self-renewing biomass can be considered neutral when calculating the CO2 numbers, as I said before. The problem is the huge amounts of carbon liberated today which had disappeared over the course of millions of years in coal, gas and oil deposits. We managed to free it in the last 100-150 years since the start of industrialisation. > If we significantly changed over to nuclear power then we could harvest that > biomass and sequester it in huge pits so deep that it never degrades it just > gets compressed into something like coal(eventually). This could be done to > remove CO2 from the atmosphere, not just recycle it. That doesn't work. Yeah right, why don't we simply launch a few space shuttles and let them transport all that crap into outer space. Maybe they can get rid of that nuclear waste too. And on their way up maybe they can release some ozone to plug the ozone hole. > I will not deny the problems with nuclear power. However there is enough > land area on the earth to allow these plants to be situated such that the > risk to human life is minimal. Yeah, let's pay those towelheads so we can build our nuclear power stations in their uninhabited deserts. Do you even remember Chernobyl? That fucking accident caused fallout all over Europe. Many thousand miles away from the actual place the accident happened. Show me the place where this can be done. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico? Don't think so. > As to the recycleing of high level wastes. Those longlived transuranes > (1000's of years) that osmium talked about can be separated from the rest > of the waste and used as fuel in the reactor, by seperating these out and > thereby concentrating them they can once again be used as fuel, this includes > the infamous plutonium. Have you ever heard of entropy? No? Read about it. An interesting concept. Expressed in easy words: shit happens, and every system tries to achieve the most chaotic state. One of those consequences is that separating the components of used fuel rods can be done, but you end up with huge amounts of radioactive waste. Even if that waste is radiating less intense, it's impossible to get rid of it in a simple way. That's why all our nations are still stockpiling all that shit and frantically looking for ways to get rid of it. And the only way they have come up with so far is burying it in some old used mine. > Its seems to be a MUCH better idea to recycle these SUPER TOXIC(i am > not denying that) compounds and reuseing them. No, the best idea is to avoid them. To separate one kilogram of Pu from spent nuclear fuel you need tens of thousands of liters of chemicals which will have to be stored afterwards, because nobody found another way to get rid of the radioactive shit yet. And 100% efficient separations don't exist. lMost western nations already have plenty of plutonium, and they simply don't know what to do with it. The russians wanted to dilute it with regular yellow cake (uranium) and incorporate it into fuel rods, but they decided against it because nobody wants to touch (buy) that shit. There's already enough Pu produced in regular reactors without added Pu. Using it in today's reactors is possible, but will only produce more of it, and the danger of proliferation to some countries who would do anything to get their hands on it is just too dangerous. It's one of the deadliest materials in this world, and one of the most expensive to produce too. Those plans for breeder reactors running on Pu and producing even more were given up, because they are too dangerous to operate. I think the japanese had one running, but the rest of the world decided they could do without. Germany even decided to shut down all its nuclear power stations in the next few years. The last one should be gone in about 20. Wise decision if you ask me. PS: I love you too Stoni.



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	foxy2 (Hive Addict)
Posted on	02-27-01 12:05
Post No	175661
Ever hear of the theory that global warming may trigger the next ice age?? You may see more snow than you hoped for. Well it was fun playing devils advocate, I still haven't heard a diffinative answer on how to save the world, not to disregard you Osmium your points are all right on the money. I am just worried it will be to late when they finally happen. Except to your response about sequestering the biomass. If it is buried and packed down tight enough and not allowed any oxygen then no CO2 can form. Do Your Part To Win The War



Subject	Re: Makin Rhodium Osmium Quicksilver Palladium etc	Reply
Posted by	Osmium (Stonium's Main Man)
Posted on	02-27-01 20:36
Post No	175714
I remember reading about fears of the next ice age coming in the seventies when os was a little bee. Today nobody talks about that anymore. Because glaciers all over the world are melting, leaving dirty ice which melts even faster because of better light absorption. All that ice has an important function: reflecting light (=heat) away and regulating the earth's heat absorbance. When they are gone, this will add further to global warming, and especially to local weather conditions. In the last 70 or so years all European glaciers have lost enormous amounts of their ice, and in another 50-100 years most of them will be gone. And I think I gave a definite answer how to solve the problem: using renewable energy. Wind, water, sun etc. Forcing people (and industries) to consume less energy. Nuking India and China, 2 billions people (which will soon try to duplicate our wasteful living standards) less on this planet. The whole CO2 story is much more difficult than most people think. I don't have the numbers in my head, but more than 90% of all CO2 is bound in minerals (CaCO3) and the oceans, and way less than a percent is actually in the air. Raising the water temperature slightly will most likely liberate more CO2. Or it might cause increased plant growth in the oceans, effectively removing huge amounts of CO2. Excessive algae growth will cause problems too, dying algae will sink to the bottom of the oceans and eventually form more oil and gas in a few million years, but it will also produce lots of methane now, and methane's effect on global warming is enormous too. There are billions of cows on this planet, each one producing lots of methane (farts, no joke!). And rice plantations, which too release methane. We simply don't know yet what exactly will happen, how exactly all those factors play together. Your idea of removing biomass can't work, because the amount of biomass humanity can process and get rid of is minuscule in the bigger picture (biomass in oceans for example). You can't hide that stuff easily, and it costs energy to do it too. All that biomass will finally start decomposing and produce other greenhouse gasses, methane being one of the most important ones, since it is several times more efficient that CO2. History has taught us that whenever we tried to tweak nature the way we want to something unexpected happens. The whole global ecosystem is in a delicate ballance, and trying to fuck around with it will always have unexpected results.

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